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[MATURE] List of R18+ otome games and discussion/opinions

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Post by 3animefancat3 on 17/04/13, 07:11 am

Eh-heh-heh, I've always had a weakness for some ~adult~ content in my Otome games, but I've yet to play an H game all the way through. Most of them seem to require this strange green substance to get past the trial... and I'm a little broke. Hoooowwever, it appears I'm in just the right place for recommendations! I'll be sure to check out the games everyone's mentioning in this thread >3> thanks guys.

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Post by 3animefancat3 on 17/04/13, 07:16 am

cielanne wrote:Well I only found one adult otome game in english where the heroïne were not rape and were there was actually what i will call love or romance. Name The second reproduction.
I'm not against adult otome but I believe that when your aim is to sell it to the female population, it shouldn't contain rape.
And I found it quite incomprehensible that the heroine forgive such an act!
That and in those game, the heroine tend to tap on my nerves ( too naïve, too much obrdient ...) . In the end I will say that the plot is not my cup of tea ( loving a rapist and all). Even though I don't mind dark elements or even gore (love horror and martial art genre manga, especially the one with th rabbit game and As The God of Death Dictates know also as KAMISAMA NO IUTOORI)

*Nods* Thank you, I agree wholeheartedly. I once loved my rapist, and let the Otome game-makers be reassured: That was not romantic. That was Stockholm's Syndrome. And it requires a ton of counseling.

*Proceeds to investigate the games mentioned* .w.

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Post by Topaztan on 17/04/13, 07:21 am

Laramie Castiel wrote:Oh yes, rape is a very "Hiyo" thing. At least she's somewhat trying to break the mould in Trick or Alice.

Yup, haraguro. I LOVE haraguro. The nicer the guy that becomes haraguro, the better~
You know, BL gets a lot of flack for being "plotless", but I thought Luckydog1 was excellent!

Anyway, moving on... the bugs aren't as frequent as I made it sound (sorry about my wording before), as long as you patch the game, which is super easy to do. After that, it only very rarely crashes (mine crashed twice during my entire playtime until 100% completion. Yes, I'm one of those 100% completion people. 99% is the most horrible percentage EVER.)

Oh yes, the dummy head mic is exxy at almost US$8,000. Eep! :shock: I'm also inclined to think they'd have more than just the one mic. I remember in the Diabolik Lovers drama CD seiyuu free talk, some of the actors (I think Kaji Yuuki, as an example) mentioned having finished recording quite some time before the free talk. It could be that one had more lines than the other, but barring that fact... It could mean that there are limited mics and only a certain amount of actors could record at a time, or simply since they're all popular, they had multiple scheduling conflicts and Kaji Yuuki happened to be the least delayed. Who really knows?

But my point remains: I agree and highly doubt that they'd have just the one mic.

If rape was handled "realistically" or at least REASONABLY, then it
could probably make for an interesting darker story. But that's a really
tricky and touchy subject. Actually if we had an otome where the
H-scenes added to the development of the relationship I'd be happy
enough.

Haraguro is something I'd like to see more of, the otome community is severely lacking in good haraguro and kuudere characters. Lucky Dog 1 was probably one of the reasons I started playing more Visual Novels. I freaking love that game, it was in no way PWP. Though the other BL games Hiyo has worked on, yeah, those would be guilty of PWP.

There was that one older R18 game Step...
something, where the characters used condoms. \(^_^)/ Actually that game
was pretty funny. Actually, speaking of this game, it had quite a few
CGs. I'm another one of those 100% completionists(?) The only percentage worse than 99% is 98%. >:C

Holy-- That is expensive. I'm sure getting a whole studio of them is a ridiculous expectation. As far as I know, Rejet is a fairly new company and they've been using Dummy Head mics since the beginning, so... About the amout of recording actors, Diabolik Lovers did have those live radio skits where two of the voice actors simultaneously used one side of what I'm assuming is the same dummy head microphone. In the end it probably has something to do with overall cost.

3animefancat3 wrote:Hoooowwever,
it appears I'm in just the right place for recommendations! I'll be sure
to check out the games everyone's mentioning in this thread >3>
thanks guys.

Well, I wouldn't recommend every game we have mentioned. So make sure to look into games before you buy 'em~.

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Post by Clairbaby on 17/04/13, 11:03 am

me *slowly raising hand and blushes*

I played some R-18 otome, and my favorites are Chou no Doku and Koezaru. Close to those are Persona A ~Opera za no Kaijin, and maybe Gin no Kanmuri Ao no Namida (I will avoid Reiji route though.. ugh). I will play almost any game, even though there's force/rape route... I am pretty much immune to these unfortunately T_T.

Chou no Doku has an interesting plot, beautiful art and I must say I like all of the main characters in this game. Some of the bad endings are quite dark, though.

Koezaru wa Akai Hana is also good, I'm currently in the middle of playing it and so far so good. You can see the feelings/romance developed between the characters before the エロ-scene.. it doesn't feel rushed like some R-18 games. I would probably will recommend this more over Chou no Doku.

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Post by Bu-Bu San on 17/04/13, 11:27 am

yeah i do enjoy eroge otome and normal

but it has to be a love story not rape or anything like that

something that actually warms my heart a little ^^

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Post by mistresskisara on 17/04/13, 01:00 pm

I'm okay with playing R-18 otome games, but I agree with you guys that's there too much rape in it compared to eroge, c'mon how about some nice consensual sex? wink

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Post by Laramie Castiel on 17/04/13, 08:03 pm

There used to be a list of R18+ otome games I've played and some info on them here, but thanks to vocaotome's suggestion, I've moved it to my first post. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Sorry for any inconvenience caused!


Last edited by Laramie Castiel on 18/04/13, 03:53 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Moved content to first post.)

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Post by The_Cat_Lady on 17/04/13, 08:18 pm

Thank for the list Laramie!Let's see, I got my eyes on:PersonA ~Opera Za no Kaijin~,Chou no Doku Hana no Kusari and Trick or Alice.Unfortunately for me,I'll have to wait for somebody to translate them one day (* ̄m ̄).[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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Post by Laramie Castiel on 17/04/13, 09:07 pm

3animefancat3 wrote:Most of them seem to require this strange green substance to get past the trial... and I'm a little broke.

I once loved my rapist, and let the Otome game-makers be reassured: That
was not romantic. That was Stockholm's Syndrome. And it requires a ton
of counseling.
Yeah... regular edition PC games cost at (the very) least AUD$15 more than a regular edition PSP game, and for a lot of young ladies with a ton of other things to spend the dough on, it makes a difference. I do consider myself an avid otome game fan, but I suppose I'm not a big enough fan to buy limited editions. I often don't see the freebies to be worth it. In the last three years I think I bought just one limited edition VN. The regular editions of Sakuragatari and Tiny x Machinegun is gonna be almost 8,200 yen! I realise the poor state the VN industry is in, but still... it's a vicious cycle.

I do agree with the Stockholm syndrome assessment, but only if they were kidnapped. For the most part, I would classify the protagonist's behaviour to show patterns of Battered wife syndrome. Sorry, I take interest in psychology so I wanted to show the distinction between the two. Not meaning to be nasty. Of course, I don't think the writers really think about things so clinically, and they're just being lazy potatoes with the protagonist.

Topaztan wrote:If rape was handled "realistically" or at least REASONABLY, then it
could probably make for an interesting darker story. But that's a really tricky and touchy subject. Actually if we had an otome where the H-scenes added to the development of the relationship I'd be happy enough.
I agree with this, too. Again, using Black Wolves Saga as an example, although that's not an R18+ game and has no rape, how they handled Fiona's psychological responses clearly had thought put into it. They didn't fetishise/sexualise the abuse Fiona endured from the cat princes. Yes, there must have been plenty of readers that might have got their jollies from it, but Fiona certainly didn't. Well... I don't want to get into too much detail about the specifics of exceptions and other endings. Another game that did a good job in terms of handling rape was Chou no Doku Hana no Kusari. In fact, that lead into my favourite ending.

The only game I can think of where all of the routes had sex scenes with pure love would be Step -Futari no Kankei wa Ippo Zutsu-. Since that game has no rape. Especially in Kitou Masaru's route, I truly saw the emotional gap between him and Minori shorten during their intimate scenes. Maybe I'm biased, because I enjoyed his route the most, IDK.

Topaztan wrote:Haraguro is something I'd like to see more of, the otome community is
severely lacking in good haraguro and kuudere characters. Lucky Dog 1
was probably one of the reasons I started playing more Visual Novels. I
freaking love that game, it was in no way PWP. Though the other BL games
Hiyo has worked on, yeah, those would be guilty of PWP.
Haraguro is excellent; I certianly love it. It does seem to get confused with yandere a lot amongst anime/manga/vn fans, haha. I've seen some mild examples of haraguro in a couple of R18+ otome games, but they were poorly executed. It's treated like a warning sign a rapist-character would hold. Yeah, Luckydog1 is a great game. BL tends to go either way. If you liked Luckydog1, play Omerta ~Chinmoku no Okite~. Great game! It certainly helps that Mukuro's seiyuu, Iida Toshinobu, voiced the protagonist! wink *Shivers*

Topaztan wrote:There was that one older R18 game Step... something, where the characters used condoms. \(^_^)/ Actually that game was pretty funny. Actually, speaking of this game, it had quite a few CGs. I'm another one of those 100% completionists(?) The only percentage worse than 99% is 98%. >:C
Not to sound like a smart-arse, and sorry if I do, but it's "completist". Again, sorry if I sounded like a jackass.

Yeah, good on Step for promoting safe sex! Yes, in the hentai world, you only get pregnant if a), you want a Babies Ever After ending, or b), to create angst themes due to an unwanted pregnancy. I'm sure most people who play R18+ otome games are at least old enough to understand the importance of contraception, but still! I enjoyed Step, even though basic settings tend to not appeal to me.

Bu-Bu-San wrote:something that actually warms my heart a little ^^
Yeah, that's where it's at. At least, for the sex scenes that are meant to be between two parties in love. I like my dark themes, I like my Do-S characters, but seeing rape being used as a shameless plot device is understandably offensive. My studies involved me meeting rape victims, and trust me, they didn't "secretly" want it. /ends before I derail.

The_Cat_Lady wrote:Thank for the list Laramie!Let's see, I got my eyes on:PersonA ~Opera Za no Kaijin~,Chou no Doku Hana no Kusari and Trick or Alice.Unfortunately
for me,I'll have to wait for somebody to translate them one day (* ̄m ̄).
No worries! It's good to know that I helped.
I know that there is a translation project going for PersonA. Kondou Takashi's voice made me melt in that game! :oops:


Last edited by Laramie Castiel on 17/04/13, 09:17 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post by The_Cat_Lady on 17/04/13, 09:14 pm

Laramie Castiel wrote:
No worries! It's good to know that I helped.
I know that there is a translation project going for PersonA. Kondou Takashi's voice made me melt in that game! :oops:
Thanks for the link!I'm going to keep an eye on their progress smile.

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Post by cielanne on 17/04/13, 10:04 pm

Is Trick or Alice in japanese? If so is there an english patch?

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Post by Laramie Castiel on 17/04/13, 10:15 pm

Trick or Alice is Japanese, and no, there is no English patch. I also don't know of any translation projects going on.

I don't think there are any R18+ otome games that are English or have been translated into English.

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Post by spicy_diamond on 17/04/13, 10:59 pm

I have a certain weakness for allusions so I've played PersonA ~Phantom of the Opera~ and Trick or Alice. (As well as Sumire no Tsubomi as I've been lurking around Mirai Soft.)

And, while some of the Bad Ends in PersonA have the creep factor cranked up ridiculously high, for the most part I really liked the Good Ends. The Phantom's in particular was really, really well done. Plus the art was pretty and the seiyuu were awesome and I never really liked Raoul anyway so... I counted it as a good title for otome-zation.

Laramie Castiel wrote:Yeah, good on Step for promoting safe sex! Yes, in the hentai world, you only get pregnant if a), you want a Babies Ever After ending, or b), to create angst themes due to an unwanted pregnancy. I'm sure most people who play R18+ otome games are at least old enough to understand the importance of contraception, but still! I enjoyed Step, even though basic settings tend to not appeal to me.
With the yandere trend, this is actually one of the things that has been bugging me. Because, while, I've been around the anime block long enough that I've already been scarred enough by other weirdness and it's easier to brush by the Japanese views on rape when it pops up in games for the most part, especially in Bad Ends where it's something of a free for all, but seriously? So McRapey handcuffed Protag-chan to his bed post in an attempt to make her his love slave forever? And somehow they aren't going to be popping out babies by the dozen? It seems like that can only go downhill really, really fast...

The_Cat_Lady wrote:
Laramie Castiel wrote:
I know that there is a translation project going for PersonA. Kondou Takashi's voice made me melt in that game! :oops:
Thanks for the link!I'm going to keep an eye on their progress smile.
*cough* There is also a PersonA ~Phantom of the Opera~ manga adaptation that's currently running in Renai REVOLUTION that I've been in the process of scanlating. So, as soon as I get some of the kinks ironed out, you can expect that to go up in the Mint Market sometime soon. ^.^0

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Post by Laramie Castiel on 17/04/13, 11:27 pm

spicy_diamond wrote:And, while some of the Bad Ends in PersonA have the creep factor cranked
up ridiculously high, for the most part I really liked the Good Ends.
The Phantom's in particular was really, really well done. Plus the art
was pretty and the seiyuu were awesome and I never really liked Raoul
anyway so... I counted it as a good title for otome-zation.
I own the book, but I've yet to finish it, so I have no idea how faithful the characterisations of the PersonA guys were with the real characters that appear in the book/play. I didn't particularly like any of the characters, but I didn't hate any, either. It's by no means a crappy game, (the art was so soft and pretty, heehee), but I just couldn't reconcile Phantome's reasonings with his actions. They just seemed too weak for the extents and hoops he jumped through. In the end, that's just my opinion, though. I love Kishio Daisuke- I really do- but even he couldn't get me to like Raoul much.

What writers don't understand about making yandere plausible is that nobody just becomes super-obsessive/possessive overnight. These kind of behaviours usually stem from prior psychological deficits, inferiority complexes, etc. It just seems like an ass-pull when some seemingly normal person just goes all mental. At the very least, something should be revealed later why they're the way they are.

spicy_diamond wrote:So McRapey handcuffed Protag-chan to his bed post in an attempt to make
her his love slave forever? And somehow they aren't going to be popping
out babies by the dozen? It seems like that can only go downhill really,
really fast...
Now that I think about it, I guess maybe they're assuming that we'll assume they're using some kind of protection. Haha, they're giving me too much credit.

Also, I had NO idea that a PersonA manga was made! Didn't know it was that popular.

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Post by spicy_diamond on 18/04/13, 05:39 am

Laramie Castiel wrote:I own the book, but I've yet to finish it, so I have no idea how faithful the characterisations of the PersonA guys were with the real characters that appear in the book/play. I didn't particularly like any of the characters, but I didn't hate any, either. It's by no means a crappy game, (the art was so soft and pretty, heehee), but I just couldn't reconcile Phantome's reasonings with his actions. They just seemed too weak for the extents and hoops he jumped through. In the end, that's just my opinion, though. I love Kishio Daisuke- I really do- but even he couldn't get me to like Raoul much.

What writers don't understand about making yandere plausible is that nobody just becomes super-obsessive/possessive overnight. These kind of behaviours usually stem from prior psychological deficits, inferiority complexes, etc. It just seems like an ass-pull when some seemingly normal person just goes all mental. At the very least, something should be revealed later why they're the way they are.
I knew the gist of the Phantom storyline before playing the game, then I wound up watching the Andrew Llyod Weber musical rendition after and, honestly, there are some really good points in PersonA that made me like it better than the musical. (Which is a just, wee bit sad in the name of classical literature but *shrugs*) The biggest thing I noticed in PersonA was that it glossed over bits with the Phantom because-
Spoiler:

It was trying to go for the childhood friend angle and former child assassin angle and the Phantom's own traditional backstory about just why he has it out for the opera house.

For all that Christine appeared a bit more street savvy in the musical, she was still ridiculously sheltered and very DiD which, while appropriate to the era, comes off as annoying from a modern standpoint. But then, considering the Phantom story overall, it was written with a very traditional, fairy tale formula - the monster captures the maiden, the prince saves her, the prince and princess live happily ever after - so I was happy for the opportunity to have the Phantom not be the monster for once. (Because, really, he was pretty fucked over in general. Blowing up the opera house was rather justified - fastforward a couple centuries and he would have had lawyers frothing at the mouth to take his case.)

And... watching the musical, I could totally see why Mirai Soft chose the yandere route for Raoul. Yeeeah, there may not have been a French trope for it, but he certainly fit the bill. It was just a tad less extreme than lengths PersonA draws it out to.

Laramie Castiel wrote:Now that I think about it, I guess maybe they're assuming that we'll assume they're using some kind of protection. Haha, they're giving me too much credit.
And granted, depending on the setting condoms might break the forth wall, but really... can't they at least give us 'secret herbal teas' or something?

(Then again... Yanderes. I suppose babies might be the end game goal regardless. 'You'll never be able to leave me if you have my baby' and all that jazz. =.=0)

Laramie Castiel wrote:Also, I had NO idea that a PersonA manga was made! Didn't know it was that popular.
It is very pretty and awesome and appears to be headed in a direction that will deal with some of the Phantom plot points that the game glossed over.

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Post by Saitoforever13 on 18/04/13, 05:47 am

Laramie Castiel wrote:First of all, I want to preface my post by apologising if I wasn't allowed to create a topic about this. I checked the rules, and there wasn't anything mentioned about adult content. This is not meant to encourage sexually explicit links and/or pictures. I honestly want to know how many people here are interested in otome games for adults. Again, I apologise if I've broken any rules.

Now that's out of the way, I was wondering how many people here play "adult" otome games? Even if you don't, what do you think of them?

I play them, and have completed a fair amount of them. I wouldn't call myself a fan, but I'm not against it enough that I would never play them. For me, if the plot seems interesting enough, I don't really factor in the "adult" side of things.

To be honest, I have not ever played a serious 'adult' otome, but I'm not against it either. As long as the story is good, the characters are awesome, and it's not all just about the 'adult' concepts, then I'll play it.

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Post by 3animefancat3 on 18/04/13, 07:23 am

Laramie Castiel wrote:

I do agree with the Stockholm syndrome assessment, but only if they were kidnapped. For the most part, I would classify the protagonist's behaviour to show patterns of Battered wife syndrome. Sorry, I take interest in psychology so I wanted to show the distinction between the two. Not meaning to be nasty. Of course, I don't think the writers really think about things so clinically, and they're just being lazy potatoes with the protagonist.

*Nods* I was a kidnap case, but you're very right on the distinction. I'm not exactly sure which one I find to be the lesser of the two evils, though. Neither is very fun to play D:

Thank you so much for that lovely list~! *.* I'm checking Love Drops out right now.

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Post by spicy_diamond on 18/04/13, 07:37 am

3animefancat3 wrote:
Laramie Castiel wrote:

I do agree with the Stockholm syndrome assessment, but only if they were kidnapped. For the most part, I would classify the protagonist's behaviour to show patterns of Battered wife syndrome. Sorry, I take interest in psychology so I wanted to show the distinction between the two. Not meaning to be nasty. Of course, I don't think the writers really think about things so clinically, and they're just being lazy potatoes with the protagonist.

*Nods* I was a kidnap case, but you're very right on the distinction. I'm not exactly sure which one I find to be the lesser of the two evils, though. Neither is very fun to play D:
On the bright side, if there is to be a bright side to all of this... From what I've encountered otome eroge doesn't seem to delve as much into the netorare elements that are fairly prevalent in manga? True, part of it may be due to the popularity of the yandere and doS tropes - which has a tendency to mean more of a romantic rivals are killed or the 'if I rape you, you'll like me' mindset than anything else.

But, then again, it may be odd to consider cheating/ being blackmail into cheating more of a do not want than Stockholm/Battered wife Syndrome in the first place.

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default Re: [MATURE] List of R18+ otome games and discussion/opinions

Post by vocaotome on 18/04/13, 10:42 am

Great job on putting together all that info, Laramie Castiel. I suggest you place those in the first post as well so people stumbling into this topic can see them first.

Here are my two cents:

Koezaru wa Akai Hana
Rape? Avoidable, present only in certain routes' bad ends. (Also you have to actively try to get them, there shouldn't be any surprise rape. Suren's 1st scene shouldn't count as rape since there was consent.)
Dark? Not really, it has some focus on politics and such but other than the rape scenes.
Cast: Tachibana Shinnosuke, Miyashita Eiji, Sugiyama Noriaki, Suzuki Chihiro, Nakazawa Masatomo, Odagiri Hyouma

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default Re: [MATURE] List of R18+ otome games and discussion/opinions

Post by Topaztan on 18/04/13, 02:06 pm

cielanne wrote:Is Trick or Alice in japanese? If so is there an english patch?
Laramie Castiel wrote:Trick or Alice is Japanese, and no, there is no
English patch. I also don't know of any translation projects going on.
I don't think there are any R18+ otome games that are English or have been translated into English.
I know if you search through the Trick or Alice tag on tumblr some miscellaneous scenes have been translated. There is also a Trick or Alice specific guide here Good luck if you try it that way, I couldn't really follow. U___U I'm just really glad I know Japanese.

As far as I know there are two games R18 games that have translation projects, and one Renp'y game that is supposed to be coming out will have R18 content. (I try keeping up with English stuff, I really, really do. Dx)
Laramie Castiel wrote:Haraguro is excellent; I certianly love it. It
does seem to get confused with yandere a lot amongst anime/manga/vn
fans, haha. I've seen some mild examples of haraguro in a couple of R18+
otome games, but they were poorly executed. It's treated like a warning
sign a rapist-character would hold. Yeah, Luckydog1 is a great game. BL
tends to go either way. If you liked Luckydog1, play Omerta ~Chinmoku no Okite~. Great game! It certainly helps that Mukuro's seiyuu, Iida Toshinobu, voiced the protagonist! ;) *Shivers*
I haven't seen haraguro confused with yandere much but I have seen plenty of people use yangire wrong, interchangeably or in place of yandere. Hnnng~, Omerta has just joined my backlog. It didn't take much to sell me on it, but it's because I have faith in your ability to judge how good a VN is. You wouldn't lie to me, right~?
Laramie Castiel wrote: Not to sound like a smart-arse, and sorry if I do, but it's "completist". Again, sorry if I sounded like a jackass.
Naw, you're not sounding like a smart-ass at all, I knew the whatever I had said wasn't an actual word, I tend to make up words when I forget the proper word. Bad habits, haha. Thanks for the correction~.
Laramie Castiel wrote:
Bu-Bu-San wrote:something that actually warms my heart a little ^^
Yeah,
that's where it's at. At least, for the sex scenes that are meant to be
between two parties in love. I like my dark themes, I like my Do-S
characters, but seeing rape being used as a shameless plot device is
understandably offensive. My studies involved me meeting rape victims,
and trust me, they didn't "secretly" want it. /ends before I derail.
Can I just take the time to say yandere DOES NOT equal rapist. I don't want this to become a mistake in characterization. Also, even if a sex scene is a little on the dark/rougher side it doesn't have to be rape. And even though there is a huge difference between fiction and reality it's not OK to treat rape lightly. that's all kaithx.

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default Re: [MATURE] List of R18+ otome games and discussion/opinions

Post by Laramie Castiel on 18/04/13, 05:04 pm

spicy_diamond wrote:I knew the gist of the Phantom storyline before playing the game, then I
wound up watching the Andrew Llyod Weber musical rendition after and,
honestly, there are some really good points in PersonA that made me like
it better than the musical. (Which is a just, wee bit sad in the
name of classical literature but *shrugs*) The biggest thing I noticed
in PersonA was that it glossed over bits with the Phantom because...

...And... watching the musical, I could totally see why Mirai Soft chose
the yandere route for
Spoiler:
Raoul
. Yeeeah, there may not have been a French
trope for it, but he certainly fit the bill. It was just a tad less
extreme than lengths PersonA draws it out to.
This is the first time I've heard such an in-depth opinion from somebody who's had exposure to the book/play, so this is very interesting.

As for the yandere not being a trope in France, I think only Japan has actually given the archetype a "proper name". I have heard many say "Borderline personality disorder" is the best equivalent translation, but BPD episodes aren't necessarily "triggered" by romantic relations alone- thus, it's an inaccurate "translation". Yandere themes have apparently existed for many, many years before the term "yandere" was created. For example, the entire focus of the book/movie/play, "Misery" and the movie, "Play Misty for Me". Sorry if I sounded like I was lecturing you- just wanted to elaborate on it, since it's a topic that interests me.

spicy_diamond wrote:And granted, depending on the setting condoms might break the forth
wall, but really... can't they at least give us 'secret herbal teas' or
something?

(Then again... Yanderes. I suppose babies might be the
end game goal regardless. 'You'll never be able to leave me if you have
my baby' and all that jazz. =.=0)
Haha, or, dare I say it, the withdrawal method having a 100% success rate until pregnancy is desired. xS Never thought of the yandere using babies for blackmail thing. It would be a tactic that I could see working on for your average 18+ otome protagonist. As sad as that truly is...

spicy_diamond wrote:On the bright side, if there is to be a bright side to all of this...
From what I've encountered otome eroge doesn't seem to delve as much
into the netorare elements that are fairly prevalent in manga? True,
part of it may be due to the popularity of the yandere and doS tropes -
which has a tendency to mean more of a romantic rivals are killed or the
'if I rape you, you'll like me' mindset than anything else.

But,
then again, it may be odd to consider cheating/ being blackmail into
cheating more of a do not want than Stockholm/Battered wife Syndrome in
the first place.
After reading that, I think I've only seen one example and it was only briefly touched upon in Tsundere S Otome. Then again, that game had a huge variety of routes- 3P, cheating, deredere, time travel, tsundere... looong game, like most Mirai releases.

As crazy as I may sound, as long as my captor isn't abusing me, maybe I might find more comfort in a Stockholm syndrome situation rather than a NTR or Battered wife syndrome one. If I already have Stockholm at that point, it's possible I may have fallen in love with the captor. Or developed a fondness strong enough to appreciate any "kindness" that my captor may show. Yanderes tend to behave as long as they get what they want, so... I really dislike NTR (it's such a horrible plot element that has many ways to get around it) and obviously being battered would be dreadful.

vocaotome wrote:Great job on putting together all that info, Laramie Castiel. I suggest
you place those in the first post as well so people stumbling into this
topic can see them first.
Thanks, vocaotome! Thanks for the idea as well, I have implemented it- with credit to you, of course! smile

Topaztan wrote:I haven't seen haraguro confused with yandere much but I have seen
plenty of people use yangire wrong, interchangeably or in place of
yandere. Hnnng~, Omerta has just joined my backlog. It didn't take much
to sell me on it, but it's because I have faith in your ability to judge
how good a VN is. You wouldn't lie to me, right~
Ah, the yangire/yandere confusion. It's understandable, but the thing is, there is a small, but distinct difference. I'll post it here just in case some of the readers here aren't sure:

Yandere: Their psychotic behaviours and episodes are triggered by their adoration for another. Can be used in a friendship manner, but more commonly seen in romantic relationships. More female characters are yandere than male.

Yangire (A.K.A. "Cute and Psycho" thanks to TV Tropes): As the English name alludes to, yangire refers more to the fact that an innocent and/or cute-looking character is totally crazy. However, the main difference is how a yangire's triggers aren't limited to friends or lovers.

I'm honoured you have such faith in me... I hope that trust will be maintained after you play Omerta! I would never lie to you, Topaz. You know I love you! If you don't know... I'll make you realise...

Topaztan wrote:Can I just take the time to say yandere DOES NOT equal rapist. I
don't want this to become a mistake in characterization. Also, even if a
sex scene is a little on the dark/rougher side it doesn't have to be
rape. And even though there is a huge difference between fiction and
reality it's not OK to treat rape lightly. that's all kaithx
Yes, that is a common mistake I've been seeing, but admittedly, much less so since the spread of the term. If anybody here thinks that rapists are just "yandere, really", then allow me to dispel that ridiculous logic:

IRL, rape is hardly about obsessive love, but a sick and twisted desire to exert absolute dominance and power over the victim. Of course, the psychology behind rape can minorly differ from its "varieties" and assailants, but in general, rape is more about psychological gratification than sexual. In essence, the sex is made better for these individuals by gaining domination, instilling fear/submission into the victim, power, etc.

I can go on for ages about this depressing topic, since I find criminal psychology fascinating... but this is not what this thread is about, plus I'm sure not everyone wants to dwell on such a subject.

As for the dark/rough sex scenes being misconstrued as rape, here's the thing: rape can be a non-violent crime. For example, date-rapings are often non-violent since the victim obviously would be too incapacitated to retaliate. Being verbally pushed into sex (without any other methods such as blackmail or threats) by somebody after you say "no"- and they know that your "no" is a DEFINITE "no"- is still classified as rape. But acted-out rape fantasies between two parties with clear consent obviously isn't- however "rough" the receiving party wants the "fantasy" to be.

I also don't like the prevalent myth that it's not rape if no drugging, threats or violence was used. I don't think these types of otome games are instilling these myths into the people playing them, but I still don't like how they tend to treat the subject matter like bullshit.

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default Re: [MATURE] List of R18+ otome games and discussion/opinions

Post by rene05 on 18/04/13, 08:17 pm

Lol.... I never play any Adult game before.... I heard there's lot of raping..and the MC was treated like a slave/slut... hmphhh.....

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default Re: [MATURE] List of R18+ otome games and discussion/opinions

Post by Sakimichi on 18/04/13, 08:31 pm

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The first R-18 otome game i played was Akazukin.
Though my heart was prepared for the raburabu scenes,
Spoiler:
My jaw dropped down the floor after that rape scene with Tiana.
Just recently I have read some modern shoujo manga and most of the guys are aggressive and takes the first initiative. And the heroine likes getting abused..and i was like..wah~ (OAO); This is totally like R-18 otome games.
I wonder if it's culture, I've been posts about how girls and guys in japan are shy about relationships and girls wanted guys to take initiative first. That desire reflects author creations, and thus >> Rape << is like implied aggressive love ... but this is just my opinion.

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default Re: [MATURE] List of R18+ otome games and discussion/opinions

Post by spicy_diamond on 18/04/13, 09:18 pm

Laramie Castiel wrote:As for the yandere not being a trope in France, I think only Japan has actually given the archetype a "proper name". I have heard many say "Borderline personality disorder" is the best equivalent translation, but BPD episodes aren't necessarily "triggered" by romantic relations alone- thus, it's an inaccurate "translation". Yandere themes have apparently existed for many, many years before the term "yandere" was created. For example, the entire focus of the book/movie/play, "Misery" and the movie, "Play Misty for Me". Sorry if I sounded like I was lecturing you- just wanted to elaborate on it, since it's a topic that interests me.
Ah, sorry, I said 'trope' but I meant 'popular form of characterization'. Because, yes, untermed, yanderes have been around since literally the dawn of man - Hera being a classic example.

(Really, most mythologies have a yandere or two in them.)

...But ooh, never though of Misery that way! That's actually really cool. Now I know what movie to reference if I need an Americanized yandere. XDD

Laramie Castiel wrote:Haha, or, dare I say it, the withdrawal method having a 100% success rate until pregnancy is desired. xS Never thought of the yandere using babies for blackmail thing. It would be a tactic that I could see working on for your average 18+ otome protagonist. As sad as that truly is...
I've been listening to a lot of drama CDs lately and the yandere babies thing has popped up a couple times in that direction. But I've only seen... one? maybe? Case of it showing up in my gaming? (And that was a bad end in a regular game so I sorta considered it all good. As soon as you're officially in the bad end bring on the crazy, just don't put it in my good end.)

Laramie Castiel wrote:As crazy as I may sound, as long as my captor isn't abusing me, maybe I might find more comfort in a Stockholm syndrome situation rather than a NTR or Battered wife syndrome one. If I already have Stockholm at that point, it's possible I may have fallen in love with the captor. Or developed a fondness strong enough to appreciate any "kindness" that my captor may show. Yanderes tend to behave as long as they get what they want, so... I really dislike NTR (it's such a horrible plot element that has many ways to get around it) and obviously being battered would be dreadful.
That's sorta my thought on the matter. Better to be crazy and happy rather than sane and abused. Or sane and abused and trapped trying to uselessly fight against the abuser which is NTRs forte. >.>0

Sakimichi wrote:I wonder if it's culture, I've been posts about how girls and guys in japan are shy about relationships and girls wanted guys to take initiative first. That desire reflects author creations, and thus >> Rape << is like implied aggressive love ... but this is just my opinion.
It's definitely a culture thing. Part of it stems the 'only a slut likes sex so if a guy rapes a girl and she gets any physical pleasure out of it, then she was a slut and asking for it anyway' mindset. But Japan also does more pushing ones feelings onto someone else and hoping to get love in return in general. (Valentines Day, anyone?) Anime, manga, and games usually just take that to new extremes as fantasy outlets. Which, in turn, just gives us even more ultimate extremes when it's in 18+ media.

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default Re: [MATURE] List of R18+ otome games and discussion/opinions

Post by Laramie Castiel on 18/04/13, 10:57 pm

rene05 wrote:Lol.... I never play any Adult game before.... I heard there's lot of raping..and the MC was treated like a slave/slut... hmphhh.....
It all depends on which games you play. If you're ever interested in trying one, I've made a list on the first post. The list tells you whether there is rape in the game or not. That being said, many R18+ otome-ge have at least one route/character that rapes the protagonist. It's sad, really. Very sad.

Sakimichi wrote:The first R-18 otome game i played was Akazukin.
Though my heart was prepared for the raburabu scenes...

...Just
recently I have read some modern shoujo manga and most of the guys are
aggressive and takes the first initiative. And the heroine likes getting
abused..and i was like..wah~ (OAO); This is totally like R-18 otome
games.
I wonder if it's culture, I've been posts about how girls and
guys in japan are shy about relationships and girls wanted guys to take
initiative first. That desire reflects author creations, and thus
>> Rape << is like implied aggressive love ... but this is just my opinion.
Akazukin is an unfortunate choice for any players that don't like rape- which are most of the Western players. The worst part is that the rape in Akazukin is unavoidable in order to get the best ending. I think the only route without some kind of rape is
Spoiler:
Ryoushi-san/Hunter
At least with recent releases, rape tends to be more frequent with bad ends rather than a route event.

Given that I grew up around a Japanese culture, I could write a really long post about how rape culture works in Japan, but these links will speak volumes, plus they have good sources:

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And a great one about abusive boyfriends in shoujo manga:
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The rape culture is perptuated by sexism and gender inequality. Given how conservative Japan is, women don't report domestic violence and/or sexual assaults. Japan is very big on "saving face" and "fitting in", so reporting a rape would magnetise unwanted attention and "cause embarrassment". Women are encouraged to be meek and innocent, making them easier to be taken advantage of.

I'm in no way trying to imply that Japanese children are systematically indoctrined with this tripe. It's something they see in the media:

* The popularity of idols. Young girls look up to groups like AKB48. The AKB48 are heavily objectified in most of their photoshoots, yet are marketed as "cute, innocent and virginal". When one of the girls are exposed to have a boyfriend or anything else that questions their virginity, they are pretty much ushered out. This (supposedly) instills young girls with the mindset that they should be sexually available to men, but shouldn't take an initiative.

* Women in television are often depicted as "secondary" to men. For example, the main newscaster is nearly always a man. For game shows, women are the assistants, while men are the hosts.

* Rape makes up for about 20% of Japanese pornography. This statistic was calculated in 2003, but as we all know, it shows no signs of slowing down ten years from then.

* Some men still have the mindset that rape is merely "acting out a fantasy", not a crime.

* Women are encouraged not to take sexual initiative, unless they want to be seen as "easy", a "slut", etc. They're also encouraged to be reluctant/shy, because (supposedly) men find an embarrassed, but aroused female very attractive.

* This sexism is reflective in R18+ otome games, and shoujo/josei manga, where the sexual roles of women render them almost always subservient and submissive to men. The worst part is, the women put up with that treatment and it is played for "happy endings". A lot of us here have played and R18+ otome where the protagonist gets raped, but still has a "happy ending" with the love interest- maybe the guy apologises (whilst making excuses), but that's it.

* The line between rape fantasy and a depiction of rape is extremely blurred.

* The recent Do-S trend could be reinforcing negative sexual roles. This podcast on Yume no Sekai taps into sadism in otome games.


Last edited by Laramie Castiel on 20/04/13, 12:23 am; edited 1 time in total

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