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[MATURE] List of R18+ otome games and discussion/opinions

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Post by spicy_diamond on 29/04/13, 02:58 am

Laramie Castiel wrote:^ Yes, there is a translation project for PersonA, and the translator(s) estimated that they're about roughly 1/4 done. The details are here.

Once at least one of my other translation projects are completed, I was thinking of asking them if they needed a hand. Mirai games are loooong, like, ridiculously long. They're the ones that make me go insane from trying to get 100% completion!
1/4th of the way, that's actually pretty impressive! Because, yeah, Mirai titles seem to be long games if you're aiming for 100% completion.

...Though, PersonA wasn't quite as long as Sumire no Tsubomi. Which felt like it ought to have been two games - I could have easily seen them taming down the one scene on the school side and making it 15+ while having the stage side be the 18+ sequel.

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Post by Laramie Castiel on 29/04/13, 03:02 am

^ Couldn't agree more. Sumire no Tsubomi shaved a couple of years off of my lifespan. 97~99% are the most frustrating numbers to a 100% completist. It's one of the very few games I used a walkthrough for. To justify, all I did was scroll to the bottom and check how many ending each guy had for each section, so I could work out which ones I have done or not. As for the rest... it took hours and lots of skipping.

I thought the overall idea of having the "school" part and the "after school" part was interesting, though. The school part could have been the main game, and the after school part could have been a fandisc. The Wedding Daisakusen fandisc was short, it could have been merged with the after school thing as a bonus for 100% completion of a character.

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Post by hanna18 on 30/04/13, 04:36 pm

Wow... R-18 :oops:

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Post by Laramie Castiel on 30/04/13, 04:41 pm

Heh, heh, heh... Welcome to the dark side, my pretty little tsundere Heart Faction-er! ;D You may get grumpy all you want at me, but I know that deep down, you love the dark side. wink

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Post by spicy_diamond on 30/04/13, 09:45 pm

Laramie Castiel wrote:^ Couldn't agree more. Sumire no Tsubomi shaved a couple of years off of my lifespan. 97~99% are the most frustrating numbers to a 100% completist. It's one of the very few games I used a walkthrough for. To justify, all I did was scroll to the bottom and check how many ending each guy had for each section, so I could work out which ones I have done or not. As for the rest... it took hours and lots of skipping.

I thought the overall idea of having the "school" part and the "after school" part was interesting, though. The school part could have been the main game, and the after school part could have been a fandisc. The Wedding Daisakusen fandisc was short, it could have been merged with the after school thing as a bonus for 100% completion of a character.
Yeah, the Wedding fandisk was short enough that it could have been merged with something else. I could have seen it as an extra for once you did unlock the true routes or 100%.

Speaking of which, it looks like Mirai Soft is doing it's bundle re-release thing again and is going to spit out Sumire + wedding fandisk + the TsundereS game all out together. Sorta curious if they'll for for a full merger for Sumire or if it will still be in pieces. *cough* Not quite curious enough to buy the whole thing again though...

...Still crossing my fingers for a PersonA fandisk once Mirai is done messing around with bundles. >.<

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Post by Laramie Castiel on 01/05/13, 04:07 am

^ From what I understand about bundled releases, it's like buying an entire season of a TV show- they have multiple discs.

Even though I have a somewhat neutral opinion of PersonA, I do actually want a fandisc for it.

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Post by spicy_diamond on 01/05/13, 08:38 pm

Laramie Castiel wrote:^ From what I understand about bundled releases, it's like buying an entire season of a TV show- they have multiple discs.

Even though I have a somewhat neutral opinion of PersonA, I do actually want a fandisc for it.
Meh, that's no fun then...

Maybe if the manga garners enough attention we'll get the fandisk. With how long the games are, I expect it's a rather expensive undertaking to haul in seiyuu for these sorts of things. (Which might just be why Mirai like to rebundle their stuff so often.)

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Post by Laramie Castiel on 02/05/13, 03:43 pm

^ Yeah, especially for eroge. Seiyuu are much more expensive in "the dark side" as well. Not that I'd have any idea what a PersonA fandisc would be about, mind you. There's still a chance, since Mirai has made fandiscs of practically every game they've produced.

On a side note, Sakuragatari has been released for about 5~6 days now. Has anyone played it yet? I've been peeking at the Japanese first impressions and so on, and so far, it's super-buggy (granted, Mead are uploading patches) and getting fairly average reviews. Hmm... not sure if want but Makoto is hot stuff~

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Post by Sunao on 04/05/13, 01:27 am

I've only finished one R18 otome game, and that was Tsuki no Hikari Taiyou no Kage (and its fandisk too, but I only played one route). I'm currently playing Jingi Naki Otome and Chou no Doku Hana no Kusari.

I went for the childhood friend first since he was really sweet and completely in love with the heroine. But then..... rape scene. I don't remember much since I really disliked that route, but it was a 3P one. Another character holds the heroine down while the childhood friend rapes her, using the disgusting excuse that he "can't hold back anymore". UGH. The other guy watches everything with a smile on his face, and I think he has sex with her afterwards, too. Unlike the childhood friend, she barely knew this other guy.

Let's be honest here. If something like that happened to you, you wouldn't trust or want to get near those guys anymore and would maybe develop even bigger issues. Rape isn't something to take lightly and I absolutely despise the way otome games (and the media as a whole) seem to handle it. I hate any kind of abusive character and I don't get what's the appeal of creepy guys that will kill you if you don't please them.

This may be all fiction but it's not far from reality. Women/girls being killed by their partners isn't something rare. Abusive partners aren't something rare. Rape isn't something rare, and rape culture is real. I can't just brush off games with abusive partners and rape as something excusable, with the heroine not being completely shaken by it.
In my opinion it kinda normalizes everything. Guys being possessive/abusive? Only expected, they love you too much. Being forced to have sex? Well, the guy is young and full of hormones, he can't help it.

That's what I think.

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Post by Verdelish on 04/05/13, 05:25 am

Sunao wrote:In my opinion it kinda normalizes everything. Guys being possessive/abusive? Only expected, they love you too much. Being forced to have sex? Well, the guy is young and full of hormones, he can't help it.
I don't know why, but this is a common school of thought in Japanese culture. Rape is often downplayed as more of a fantasy. Sex crimes have gone up in recent years and some universities have to put out notices reminding people that rape is a crime... sad

It doesn't help that Japanese social norms encourage people, especially females, to be passive and "go with the flow" / endure / 我慢 (gaman) rather than stand up when they feel threatened / rock the boat / 迷惑 (meiwaku).

I think this gross recurring theme would garner more attention - and be more actively discouraged - if more otome games were localized to American markets. It's working for Dragon's Crown's sexist art, at least.

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Post by spicy_diamond on 04/05/13, 05:54 am

Verdelish wrote:
Sunao wrote:In my opinion it kinda normalizes everything. Guys being possessive/abusive? Only expected, they love you too much. Being forced to have sex? Well, the guy is young and full of hormones, he can't help it.
I don't know why, but this is a common school of thought in Japanese culture. Rape is often downplayed as more of a fantasy. Sex crimes have gone up in recent years and some universities have to put out notices reminding people that rape is a crime... [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

It doesn't help that Japanese social norms encourage people, especially females, to be passive and "go with the flow" / endure / 我慢 (gaman) rather than stand up when they feel threatened / rock the boat / 迷惑 (meiwaku).

I think this gross recurring theme would garner more attention - and be more actively discouraged - if more otome games were localized to American markets. It's working for Dragon's Crown's sexist art, at least.
Part of the reason the problem doesn't seem to draw attention, at least from my perspective, is that, for the most part, these are Japanese games intended for a Japanese audience. Localization is a rare thing. (I can't think of a single otome H game that has been properly localized... we're only recently getting lucky enough to get the companies to notice that we exist at all for the normal stuff.) And then, even when games get localized it's a rather small pool of fandom that pays attention in the first place. (And, in the case of male H-games the target audience likely doesn't care so long as they get their fapping material. *shrugs*)

The only time things draw attention is when they get to the point where they're offensive to even the people they target.

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Post by Laramie Castiel on 04/05/13, 06:35 am

I've already explained the "rape culture" in Japan (speaking as a half-Japanese lady whom grew up heavily influenced by Japanese culture) in much more detail in a previous post of mine, but I'll re-post it here for those that are interested:

Spoiler:

Good reading material on rape culture and sexism in Japan:

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And a great one about abusive boyfriends in shoujo manga:
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The rape culture is perptuated by sexism and gender inequality. Given how conservative Japan is, women don't report domestic violence and/or sexual assaults. Japan is very big on "saving face" and "fitting in", so reporting a rape would magnetise unwanted attention and "cause embarrassment". Women are encouraged to be meek and innocent, making them easier to be taken advantage of.

I'm in no way trying to imply that Japanese children are systematically indoctrined with this tripe. It's something they see in the media:

* The popularity of idols. Young girls look up to groups like AKB48. The AKB48 are heavily objectified in most of their photoshoots, yet are marketed as "cute, innocent and virginal". When one of the girls are exposed to have a boyfriend or anything else that questions their virginity, they are pretty much ushered out. This (supposedly) instills young girls with the mindset that they should be sexually available to men, but shouldn't take an initiative.

* Women in television are often depicted as "secondary" to men. For example, the main newscaster is nearly always a man. For game shows, women are the assistants, while men are the hosts.

* Rape makes up for about 20% of Japanese pornography. This statistic was calculated in 2003, but as we all know, it shows no signs of slowing down ten years from then.

* Some men still have the mindset that rape is merely "acting out a fantasy", not a crime.

* Women are encouraged not to take sexual initiative, unless they want to be seen as "easy", a "slut", etc. They're also encouraged to be reluctant/shy, because (supposedly) men find an embarrassed, but aroused female very attractive.

* This sexism is reflective in R18+ otome games, and shoujo/josei manga, where the sexual roles of women render them almost always subservient and submissive to men. The worst part is, the women put up with that treatment and it is played for "happy endings". A lot of us here have played and R18+ otome where the protagonist gets raped, but still has a "happy ending" with the love interest- maybe the guy apologises (whilst making excuses), but that's it.

* The line between rape fantasy and a depiction of rape is extremely blurred.

* The recent Do-S trend could be reinforcing negative sexual roles. This podcast on Yume no Sekai taps into sadism in otome games.

Another problem in Japan is what people think that constitutes as a "real" rape is far too extreme. This obviously doesn't apply to every single citizen, but it has got to an extent that "forced" and "rape" are seen as mutually exclusive things, when in fact, coercing somebody into sex when a definite no has been provided is rape. People just dress up "forced" in all the pretty clothes and jewellery they can, just because "rape" is an ugly fucking word. It certainly does conjure up images of a violent crime.

This thinking isn't limited to Japan, of course. It's scary how many people have been technically raped by their boyfriends, but doesn't realise it... Because they're stuck with the mentality that your rapist has to be as violent as Jack the Ripper or as deranged as Jeffrey Dahmer to even qualify as a "real" rapist. Plus they just write off their boyfriend's selfish crap as "he just really loves me", much in the way idiot otome game protagonists do.

I wish more women would just wake up from all that bullshit and realise that regardless of how violent or not it was, regardless of if he was a stranger or a lover, if somebody coerces you into sex when you said "no"... it's rape!

I'm proud of my heritage for the most part, but I'm continuously embarrassed with the undeniable sexism and poor education in regards to rape. Similar to the way that I'm a mostly proud Australian, but am so embarrassed with those "fit in or fuck off" racists that end up on the media around the world.

spicy_diamond wrote:(And, in the case of male H-games the target audience likely doesn't care so long as they get their fapping material. *shrugs*)
Many more guys who play eroge care about characters and plot than people seem to think. "Nukige" players on the other hand, can be safely assumed they don't give a shit.

spicy_diamond wrote:The only time things draw attention is when they get to the point where they're offensive to even the people they target.

Ah, RapeLay. I've played that shitty game for myself just to see what it's all about, and to be honest, it's not significantly different to releases like Rape! Rape! Rape! (which was popular enough to get an anime adaptation) or Machijuu de Rape!!. It only got attention since it was listed on shopping websites outside of Japanese ones.

To clarify, I'm not arguing with anybody in particular here, nor do I want to come across as having an indifferent attitude to rape...

But how is it different to games like Carmageddon, in which the objective is to win races and brutally kill as many people as you can? Those said victims aren't even your enemies- they're totally uninvolved pedestrians. How is it different to any game in which you cannot progress without the slaughter or tens, hundreds or even thousands?

Video games containing glorified, graphic and senseless murders are somehow secondary to rape, because..?

Sometimes I'm amazed by the double-standards that arise from these controversies. The anti-video game violence people complained about this as they do with graphic violence in video games, so they're cool. They at least direct their oppressive tunnel vision to violence in video games across a wide spectrum.

Whereas the people who play first-person shooters and high-five over headshots suddenly care about a different form of violence in video games? =/

Do people just not care about murders in video games simply because "now it's too prevalent to control?" Don't those people say, "it's just a game"?

Do people actually think that games like RapeLay will create rapists? Just like people that want to murder will murder, people who want to rape will rape. People who have suppoedly "turned into killers/rapists" from media had pre-existing mental conditions from the start. They were always likely to offend at some stage. Something was eventually going to feed that fantasy; whatever their twisted minds construe as such. If it's not a video game, maybe a book. Not a book? Maybe a movie.

Are we just gonna BAN FUCKING EVERYTHING? /ends long post.

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Post by spicy_diamond on 04/05/13, 08:46 am

Laramie Castiel wrote:Are we just gonna BAN FUCKING EVERYTHING?
Aaand I think that would about sum up everything.

People will always be dicks. Media will always have crap in it that offends someone. Either live in a little box or accept the bad with the good vote with your wallet and move along.

Besides, if the creeptasic, rapey, yandere Bad End is squicky that just means it's doing its job. XD

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Post by Nezumi88 on 05/05/13, 12:01 am

I don't really have any interest in 18+ otome games, because it gives me the feeling they are not meant for women. I'm not a specialist about sex in Japan, but it seems that, as in most japanese pornography, the woman is always the "pure hearted little-girlish airheaded victim" that gets raped and "kinda" likes it. Even in games meant for women... Ok, there's sometimes a rather good plot, interesting characters, but the amount of meaningless and violent sex in it puts me off. What's weird is that it's exactly the same in BL games, only it's a man that "get's it", and in that setting, I like it Neutral I don't mean I approve of rape, and I hate the abusive characters, but I'm talking of the "airhead and innocent" type of the uke charas. Sorry, this post is a mess and I don't know how to communicate my feeling about it straight. Just talking about the "role" of the female character and typical traits of her personality.

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Post by spicy_diamond on 05/05/13, 04:25 am

The "pure hearted little-girlish airhead" stereotype sorta defines the base heroine in general for otome games and shojo in general. (Not just with the 18+ stuff) Just because having an innocent, go with the flow, prota-chan makes it easier to build yummy reverse harem situations without making the girl seem like she's deliberately stringing them along. And otome games have a tendency to complicate the formula even more because they are used so often as type of self-insert wish fulfilment.

Granted there are exceptions to the rule - I cannot say enough about how awesome Kan'nu from Jyuzaengi Engetsu Sangokuden - but it remains a one step forward, two steps back kinda thing.

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Post by Enviri on 05/05/13, 04:53 pm

Just dropping by to say that for what I've seen so far in R-18 otome games, I actually think they're targeted to females, despite the bordering on rape sexual themes.

I actually see the R-18 otome games as quite softcore, granted, I've only played a handful of it (with Under the Moon being my oldest, and Tsubasa no Oka Hime being the latest), but otome game ero-scene, even the rape, seemed pretty tame compared to eroge VNs targeted to boys. What constituted as rape here basically consensual there
Type-Moon VNs, which I could say was quite tame in general had pseudo-rape ones, for example, and there was also the much more extreme rape types, like lilith's VNs, which is really just violent R-18 scenes.

I agree that "pure-hearted little girlish airhead" was there for self-insert and immersion, though I would say it's more "doesn't really have character".

But looking at the posts above, I was wondering, are the writers for R-18 otome games were females?



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Post by Nezumi88 on 05/05/13, 05:29 pm

spicy_diamond wrote:The "pure hearted little-girlish airhead" stereotype sorta defines the base heroine in general for otome games and shojo in general. (Not just with the 18+ stuff) Just because having an innocent, go with the flow, prota-chan makes it easier to build yummy reverse harem situations without making the girl seem like she's deliberately stringing them along. And otome games have a tendency to complicate the formula even more because they are used so often as type of self-insert wish fulfilment.

Granted there are exceptions to the rule - I cannot say enough about how awesome Kan'nu from Jyuzaengi Engetsu Sangokuden - but it remains a one step forward, two steps back kinda thing.

Yes, that's right, but in some R18 otome games, they go to the extent where the character actually "likes" the rape. I have nothing against the pure-hearted airheaded otome character, but against what kind of abuse they may go through, depending on the game. Like the example of being raped by the best friend character, helped by some stranger...

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Post by Laramie Castiel on 06/05/13, 06:59 am

Enviri wrote:Just dropping by to say that for what I've seen so far in R-18 otome
games, I actually think they're targeted to females, despite the
bordering on rape sexual themes.
You're exactly right. Not a single otome game can be targeted towards men, because otome games, by definition, are visual novels and dating simulators in which the objective is to end up in a romantic relationship with a male, and the protagonist is ALWAYS a female. These games are all targeted towards women, as you can see with the general lack of memorable female side characters. Just because it has adult content, doesn't mean it'll change this fact.

Enviri wrote:I actually see the R-18 otome games as quite softcore, granted, I've
only played a handful of it (with Under the Moon being my oldest, and
Tsubasa no Oka Hime being the latest), but otome game ero-scene, even
the rape, seemed pretty tame compared to eroge VNs targeted to boys.
What constituted as rape here basically consensual there Type-Moon
VNs, which I could say was quite tame in general had pseudo-rape ones,
for example, and there was also the much more extreme rape types, like
lilith's VNs, which is really just violent R-18 scenes.

I agree with you about the sex scenes being relatively softcore. I guess the generalisation is that women tend to prefer sex scenes to be filled with emotion and love; for it to be sensual. Men prefer sex scenes to be as cheeky, naughty and explicit as possible- except for defloration scenes. You can already tell otome games do cater to your average woman's fancy, with the lack of blowjobs and more "eating out" on females, haha. As for eroge targeted towards men, their girlfriends are blowjob machines.

The rape is tamer, because it's written with the "sub-genre" mindset of "forced". Unless the rape is written for drama, it always results in a kind of justification that "she wanted it in the end, it's all okay." Regardless of its tameness, I still can understand where many of these "anti-rape" otome gamers are coming from. However, to me, just like crime and violence in games just being a game, I have the same attitude towards rape in video games. If we're gonna ban rape, we might as well ban crime and murder alongside. I just think it's stupid in most cases when it comes to VNs, but that's just me.

Enviri wrote:But looking at the posts above, I was wondering, are the writers for R-18 otome games were females?
Yeah, a lot of them are. I actually can't think of a male writer. Truth be told, there's no real way of knowing, since it's not uncommon for eroge writers to lie about or conceal their gender. The better known ones, like Hiyo, who is known for her rapist characters, is a lady.

Nezumi88 wrote:Yes, that's right, but in some R18 otome games, they go to the extent
where the character actually "likes" the rape. I have nothing against
the pure-hearted airheaded otome character, but against what kind of
abuse they may go through, depending on the game. Like the example of
being raped by the best friend character, helped by some stranger...

I'm just sick of seeing that innocent bullshit all the time. Like spicy_diamond said, and I said in a different thread, it's frequently used as a tool to justify so many shitty things they do to the guys. Of course, I'm in no way trying to infer that they deserve getting raped... I have nothing against rape fantasies, but the otome games clearly execute it as a "real" rape and the dude is just "lucky" the girl got turned on by it. I get that the rape fantasy thing would get destroyed if the game actually played it out as a real rape fantasy, so I just learned to overlook it.

I also am sick of seeing games trying to sound more "realistic" by making the girl say something along the lines of, "I don't want it, but it feels soooo good!" Are all of these writers virgins/sexually inexperienced? Believe me, if you don't want it, it doesn't feel good. The end. Actually getting raped by your best friend- a man you would wholly trust- would destroy most people's lives and take years to recover... but not in otome games.

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Post by Nezumi88 on 06/05/13, 02:34 pm

Laramie Castiel wrote:Are all of these writers virgins/sexually inexperienced?

*Snort* That's possible... And I wonder if most of them are men. :scratch:

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Post by Laramie Castiel on 06/05/13, 06:44 pm

Nezumi88 wrote:*Snort* That's possible... And I wonder if most of them are men.
Most R18+ otome game writers are female, or at least, the ones that do identify themselves have all been female. That's just the little I know of it. Workers in the eroge industry tend to conceal and/or lie about their gender and names a lot. I can see why they'd want to, though.

I think the writers shouldn't shy away from expanding a character and/or a couple's sexual repertoires. I'm all for vanilla, but a bit of anal or sex involving toys isn't that weird. It's very normal for couples to experiment around. Then again, many otome game fans I meet have negative responses to consensual "non-vanilla", so... Maybe I really am more perverted than the average bear.

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Post by Enviri on 06/05/13, 07:20 pm

The rape is tamer, because it's written with the "sub-genre" mindset of "forced".
I never quite quite understood the line between "forced" and "real rape" in otome games.

If we're gonna ban rape, we might as well ban crime and murder alongside. I just think it's stupid in most cases when it comes to VNs, but that's just me.
Agreed, but I think it's kind of a double standard. Rape is generally considered to be much more controversial and/or offensive in media. Crime and murder are practically the bone and flesh of gritty, darker stories that it was treated much lightly than rape.
I think I could think of a few characters who had rape as backstory considered much more tragic than well, having his/her family murdered.

I think the writers shouldn't shy away from expanding a character and/or a couple's sexual repertoires. I'm all for vanilla, but a bit of anal or sex involving toys isn't that weird. It's very normal for couples to experiment around. Then again, many otome game fans I meet have negative responses to consensual "non-vanilla", so... Maybe I really am more perverted than the average bear.
Probably because most of those you find in the games catered to males? I really don't mind that much, as long as the core remain otome and not some kind of male male fanservice material. But I think it's kind of hard to make it sensual and romantic using anal or toys... :O


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Post by Laramie Castiel on 06/05/13, 07:50 pm

Enviri wrote:I never quite quite understood the line between "forced" and "real rape" in otome games.
It's very blurred, that's for sure. Force is still technically rape, as most of us already know. It's somehow supposed to be "less of a rape" if she eventually says yes.

Enviri wrote:Agreed, but I think it's kind of a double standard. Rape is generally
considered to be much more controversial and/or offensive in media.
Crime and murder are practically the bone and flesh of gritty, darker
stories that it was treated much lightly than rape.
I think I could
think of a few characters who had rape as backstory considered much more
tragic than well, having his/her family murdered.
A lot of people do hold that view, that's true. I guess what crimes people think are worse than one another is ultimately subjective, after all. If there is anything I would be offended of by rape in media, it would be how lightly it gets treated, and how much of a cheap attempt at creating character sympathy it can really be. Or you can go down the typical otome game avenue, ignore how an actual rape fantasy plays out, and make a mockery out of the subject.

Enviri wrote:Probably because most of those you find in the games catered to males? I
really don't mind that much, as long as the core remain otome and not
some kind of male male fanservice material. But I think it's kind of
hard to make it sensual and romantic using anal or toys...

That's another thing I think- I don't think every single sex scene has to be sensual and/or romantic. Very few couples in the world have the same "type" of sex every single time. A common thing you find with the "kinkier" stuff in otome games is that they tend to come out in bad endings or non-con. I don't agree with the view that male-on-female anal sex can be construed as male-male fanservice, which seems to be a worryingly not-so-uncommon view of otome gamers I've met. Anybody who thinks that anal sex is just for "gays" needs to get a serious reality check. I'm not even that much of a fan of it; it was just meant to be an example for a way in which writers to could switch things up a bit more.

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Post by Enviri on 06/05/13, 08:19 pm

Laramie Castiel wrote:
I don't agree with the view that male-on-female anal sex can be construed as male-male fanservice, which seems to be a worryingly not-so-uncommon view of otome gamers I've met. Anybody who thinks that anal sex is just for "gays" needs to get a serious reality check.
Oh, I'm sorry. I think mistyped male-male. I actually mean something along the line of male audience oriented, because that's what I've seen so far in VNs in general.
The sensual and romantic was actually more of what I've seen so far in R-18 otome games scenes.
Laramie Castiel wrote: it was just meant to be an example for a way in which writers to could switch things up a bit more.
I actually would like to see this :D

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Post by spicy_diamond on 07/05/13, 01:46 am

Laramie Castiel wrote:A common thing you find with the "kinkier" stuff in otome games is that they tend to come out in bad endings or non-con.
I've noticed this too. Which I suppose has its own benefits as it's easier, for me personally at least, to hand wave most squickage once it gets put under the safety umbrella of the Bad End.

...But then, at the same time, it seems like 3Ps often get shoved in there as well which I find a wee bit frustrating. Can't a fangirl get a happy little ménage à trois fantasy without it sinking into a rapefest, whirl of backstabbing and trauma?

That being said, the lack of creativity in the bedroom shown in a positive light in otome probably in turn could be said to link back to the Japanese mentality of the 'good girl' and sex which just sticks us back in the 'it's not rape if she likes it' loop. =.=0

(Don't stop at toys, what about the many creative uses of strawberries and whip cream!! >.<)

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Post by Laramie Castiel on 07/05/13, 05:31 am

Enviri wrote:Oh, I'm sorry. I think mistyped male-male. I actually mean something
along the line of male audience oriented, because that's what I've seen
so far in VNs in general. The sensual and romantic was actually more of what I've seen so far in R-18 otome games scenes.
That's okay. To be clear, I was directing that "if you think anal sex is just for male-male" sentiment at anybody who thinks that in general. It wasn't directly to you~ The industry is so sexist. I'm sure there are many men that are interested in romantic sex scenes (that aren't just limited to taking a girl's virginity) and many women that are interested in sexual experimentation.

spicy_diamond wrote:...But then, at the same time, it seems like 3Ps often get shoved in
there as well which I find a wee bit frustrating. Can't a fangirl get a
happy little ménage à trois fantasy without it sinking into a rapefest,
whirl of backstabbing and trauma?
Agreed. To date, I haven't seen a 3P scene which isn't a result of backstabbing, cheating and/or rape. This kind of falls into the sexual experimentation complaint of mine as well. From what I heard about how people come about threesomes IRL, it's just meant to be for fun and tends to be experimental. It's even got to the point I've joked, "every R18+ otome game needs an obligatory 3P ending to be a real R18+ otome game."

spicy_diamond wrote:That being said, the lack of creativity in the bedroom shown in a
positive light in otome probably in turn could be said to link back to
the Japanese mentality of the 'good girl' and sex which just sticks us
back in the 'it's not rape if she likes it' loop. =.=0
In the cases in which the woman is sexually inexperienced, it makes more sense. But it doesn't mean that she should have a complete lack of interest.

spicy_diamond wrote:(Don't stop at toys, what about the many creative uses of strawberries and whip cream!! >.<)
Yup! Bit of light BDSM would be interesting. I can definitely understand how the hardcore stuff would freak people out. I would find it awesome if there was a scene where a couple are at an adult shop together. Especially if it's their first time. Or even just one of the two going alone to find something they'd both like. The shock on their faces would be worth the price of the game alone! xD Especially if they make their way into the BDSM section. I'll certainly never forget the first time I looked around in one!

Food would be fun! ;D Or watching a porno together. Maybe some role-reversal for a change and make the girl take charge!

Look, I'm so open to switching up at this point that it doesn't even have to occur in the game canon. Maybe an out-of-the-norm sex scene (that's NOT forced/rape) could be a reward for 100% completion? IDK...

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