How many of you actually want to go Pro?

by Akuni 16/04/13, 04:59 pm

I've always wanted to be a video game designer, but I think after school I'll do it on the side as a hobby :3 But I'd still like to go to Japan someday to intern (if I get that chance ><)

So, how many people here are actually interested in making Visual Novels as a more than a hobby? Or getting into a popular company and all that?

by umi~ 16/04/13, 05:37 pm

To be honest I'm sure I'll do it as a hobby

I might try to make games that rewards my work but I don't believe someone like me could get something like this done without getting bored (I love writing stuff but if it's something that needs to be done with a group I would try to do it all by myself and it wouldn't work perfectly really >.>)
still dreaming to be a pro is nice.... >.<

by Alera 16/04/13, 07:32 pm

I've already taken the road to "pro" with the course I've chosen and studying at university right now. It's exactly what I need. We'll see where that road will lead me, probably away from visual novels specifically, but I still can continue working on those in my free time, like I do now~

by eigengrau 16/04/13, 07:35 pm

I've always wanted to start a video game company here. ^^ And I'll make that happen \o/

by **Laramie Castiel** 16/04/13, 07:40 pm

I've always had an interest in creative writing, but no interest whatsoever in programming, music composition, and especially DRAWING. God, I could not draw a bishie to save my life. If I have to choose, I'll probably go for being a professional scenario writer for something.

I have been thinking on-off that if I could collaborate with the right people, I would like to make a visual novel of some sort... but professionally? Not at this stage.

by **Bu-Bu San** 16/04/13, 09:52 pm

yeah i would love working in translation of visual novels professionally

i am also apart of an indi Visual novel group
so im slowly heading that way

by KawaiiMess 16/04/13, 09:56 pm

Reality time!

Speaking as someone who does have friends who work in the game industry, you don't have go to Japan to participate in it. And seriously, the odds of a foreigner getting to work in a niche market company like Otomate or Quinn Rose is going to be next to nothing. There's only one foreigner who works for Studio Ghibli, and they're considered a major studio.

Do your research! There are tons of game companies in the US--Nintendo, Sega, Capcom, Telltale, Double Fine, Valve, not to mention the many many many many MANY indie game companies out there. If you're not in the US, just do research on who's hiring in your country, and what they're looking for and what you're going to need to know. Chances are they're not going to be looking for scenario writers or major project heads, though.

Visual Novels are actually a dying out market and they don't pay well in return. They're going the way of the dinosaur.

It's fun to make them, but seriously, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Even though that article refers to "bishojo/pretty girl games", and not otome or bl games, they're pretty much all in the same small niche market.

Speaking as someone who has graduated from school with a major focusing on illustration and sequential art, it's damn hard to make enough money off of your stuff to eat. You gotta be driven. You gotta be motivated. You gotta keep improving and take crits. You also gotta work dayjobs. A lot. I'm working two right now just so I can do comics and VN work on the side.

I'd really love to see where VNs go, though. Choose your own adventure as a genre seems to be coming back (like the walking dead videogame), and Ace Attorney and Professor Layton combine logic puzzles with a VN style of storytelling. I'd love to see another Grim Fandango style game that utilizes VN stuff.

As for making your own videogame company, good luck. You'll be competing with a lot of companies out there, and you'll need money. No one will work for free for you unless you know what you have is going to be a hit.

Kickstarter and Indie Gogo also can't instantly give you the money you need, either--you gotta be smart about your pitches and deliver on your promises. If anyone's familiar with the indie fighting game Skullgirls, they actually broke down how much making one playable character for their game cost: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

But if you want to go for it, then go for it. Work hard for it! And I'd like to see what you come up with in the future.

by Akuni 16/04/13, 09:58 pm

Dang kawaii~~ D:

Anyone who does extensive research on the gaming industry will probably want to pack their bags and won't even bother. Not only is getting in entry-level hard enough staying there and climbing to the top is just as hard. Even indie gamers have it rough....games take a lot of time and money. ^^ Not deterring anyone, but it is good to do your research first, but if its your passion then GO GO GO~ and dream big >:3

Even at a large level, niche marketing works best for these sorts of things.

by **Bu-Bu San** 16/04/13, 10:04 pm

Akuni wrote:
You're bi-lingual Bu-Bu??

[quote]

lol im not XD
i am learning Japanese at though but i will be in a few years XD

by **Laramie Castiel** 16/04/13, 10:09 pm

Thanks for the great post, KawaiiMess!

That article about Skullgirls was sobering indeed. I always had an idea that production costs were expensive, but that is mind-blowing!

I really hope the VN industry picks up, but it seems very unlikely as long as torrents and downloading websites exist. Most gamers I know download a vast majority of their games. I wonder how much these companies lose?

It also reminds me of how I've been hearing Western anime fans say they want to be "seiyuu" every now and then. Sure, it's not likely to be a serious thought of theirs, but they should know that the industry is just as tough to crack into!

by **Bu-Bu San** 16/04/13, 10:10 pm

KawaiiMess wrote:Reality time!

Speaking as someone who does have friends who work in the game industry, you don't have go to Japan to participate in it. And seriously, the odds of a foreigner getting to work in a niche market company like Otomate or Quinn Rose is going to be next to nothing. There's only one foreigner who works for Studio Ghibli, and they're considered a major studio.

Do your research! There are tons of game companies in the US--Nintendo, Sega, Capcom, Telltale, Double Fine, Valve, not to mention the many many many many MANY indie game companies out there. If you're not in the US, just do research on who's hiring in your country, and what they're looking for and what you're going to need to know. Chances are they're not going to be looking for scenario writers or major project heads, though.

Visual Novels are actually a dying out market and they don't pay well in return. They're going the way of the dinosaur.

It's fun to make them, but seriously, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Even though that article refers to "bishojo/pretty girl games", and not otome or bl games, they're pretty much all in the same small niche market.

Speaking as someone who has graduated from school with a major focusing on illustration and sequential art, it's damn hard to make enough money off of your stuff to eat. You gotta be driven. You gotta be motivated. You gotta keep improving and take crits. You also gotta work dayjobs. A lot. I'm working two right now just so I can do comics and VN work on the side.

I'd really love to see where VNs go, though. Choose your own adventure as a genre seems to be coming back (like the walking dead videogame), and Ace Attorney and Professor Layton combine logic puzzles with a VN style of storytelling. I'd love to see another Grim Fandango style game that utilizes VN stuff.

As for making your own videogame company, good luck. You'll be competing with a lot of companies out there, and you'll need money. No one will work for free for you unless you know what you have is going to be a hit.

Kickstarter and Indie Gogo also can't instantly give you the money you need, either--you gotta be smart about your pitches and deliver on your promises. If anyone's familiar with the indie fighting game Skullgirls, they actually broke down how much making one playable character for their game cost: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

But if you want to go for it, then go for it. Work hard for it! And I'd like to see what you come up with in the future.

yes i am aware of most of that XD

but we have dreams we may not get into exactly what we want in the future but we have to try dont we XD

by Akuni 16/04/13, 10:21 pm

Who knows what the future holds, for gaming on a whole.

I gave up my conquest of being pro ages ago xD because I would prefer to just do it on the side and make a small number of people happy then with the pressures and demands of say a global market.

But keep going for what you want :3

There are those people who work alongside mangakas in scenario writing I know that much...but I don't know anything about that industry. For those of us who just write ^^;

by **Laramie Castiel** 16/04/13, 10:26 pm

Yes, making one for fun sounds much better than working for a company. I can't imagine NOT getting stressed by the time constraints. It must be hard to deal with the disappointment of a sales flop after putting so much time, effort and money into a game.

by Her Cheshire Smile 17/04/13, 03:11 pm

eigengrau wrote:I've always wanted to start a video game company here. ^^ And I'll make that happen \o/

When you do, I'll help you. :DD

I've actually been pretty interested in programming since Computer Science class. And I'm darn well decent at it. The only reason why I didn't take it as a course (believe me, I did write it down, I just didn't get in is all) is because of the math involved and I really won't be able to take that. I might still read up on programming as a hobby but not as an actual job, maybe.

As for the other aspects of the game, as you can see, I get mighty verbose and will bore players. Fast. I can't draw either so... yeah.

by KawaiiMess 17/04/13, 11:23 pm

For those of you planning to start your own companies, make sure you study up on business and marketing. Make sure you treat your artists right, too! Very little of us are willing to work for free.

by Akuni 18/04/13, 06:13 am

KawaiiMess wrote:For those of you planning to start your own companies, make sure you study up on business and marketing. Make sure you treat your artists right, too! Very little of us are willing to work for free.

Working for free in the pro-league is out of it. Foods gotta get on the table somehow :s

I got in a convo with someone who pirates games and we were talking a long time, and they really believe the people making most of these games make billions of dollars, but even leading titles have a hard time moving from shelves. (Well, maybe not those titles people will always buy, like car racing games and that shooter stuff)

by Sku 18/04/13, 09:43 am

I've attempted I guess you could say.
I have the diploma in Game Arts but the selling myself thing I'm not too good at.
I went to GDC (Game Developers Conference) back in 2010. Oh god, my ego just shrunk like sauteed spinach. Everything was so intimidating. Naughty Dog kept looking at his watch, Konami wants Lvl 4 business Japanese, people will take your resumes and put them in the pile. You're suppose to get friendly with them and form a connection but in only 2 mins? UbiSoft kept telling me he had to go talk to other people. Sigh,so he tossed me off to someone else. He wasn't even an agent but he was friendly (from my hometown too).
A lot of it was having to go to parties and drink it up with the employed (which I'm not = invisible wallflower). Only reason I got Bioware's Concept Artist's contact was because I think he was a bit tipsy. My art was nowhere near his level. (Tried to keep in contact but he stopped responding ; _ ; )

OTL

It's a hard industry to get into. Even more so with all the layoffs going around.
You really have to be people oriented and have network skills of the gods to get in a big name company.

(I use to want to go pro. For now I'll just continue crafting and sewing in my corner ; _ ; )
I have a few colleges in places/have work in: ArenaNet, Riot Games, 38 Studios, Valve, NaughtyDog.
Art is harder, Programmers seem to get in easier. :<

by billies 18/04/13, 07:41 pm

I'm studying to be an illustrator with a concentration in game arts. Making art for a game professionally sounds great- I'd actually be okay with making art for any game.
But really I would love to make art for an otome game or a BL game because I love drawing bishounen *Q* ) And drawing in anime style comes more naturally for me than other styles OTL
Getting a job now is pretty hard though so I'm just going to keep trying to improve my skills and I will have to promote myself a lot.

If anyone needs an artist for their game plz hire me /wink

by Akuni 18/04/13, 10:57 pm

Sku wrote:I've attempted I guess you could say.
I have the diploma in Game Arts but the selling myself thing I'm not too good at.
I went to GDC (Game Developers Conference) back in 2010. Oh god, my ego just shrunk like sauteed spinach. Everything was so intimidating.... It's a hard industry to get into. Even more so with all the layoffs going around.
You really have to be people oriented and have network skills of the gods to get in a big name company.

(I use to want to go pro. For now I'll just continue crafting and sewing in my corner ; _ ; )
I have a few colleges in places/have work in: ArenaNet, Riot Games, 38 Studios, Valve, NaughtyDog.
Art is harder, Programmers seem to get in easier. :<

Don't give up Sku ^^; Its not easy but that's why its called work lol I'm sure you'll get better, build up a kick arse portfolio and maybe...idk think of innovative ways to apply to these places, they love creative thinkers....I'd think?

But I didn't know the gaming world had those kind of mingles o.o

billies wrote:I'm studying to be an illustrator with a concentration in game arts. Making art for a game professionally sounds great- I'd actually be okay with making art for any game.
But really I would love to make art for an otome game or a BL game because I love drawing bishounen *Q* ) And drawing in anime style comes more naturally for me than other styles OTL
Getting a job now is pretty hard though so I'm just going to keep trying to improve my skills and I will have to promote myself a lot.

If anyone needs an artist for their game plz hire me /wink

Heyyy~ Freework is a good start and good practice, don't think they aren't watching what's popular rn. Post your art here in the forums so we can see :3

by KawaiiMess 19/04/13, 12:38 am

Free work is OK for practice and for yourself, but if someone asks you to work for free, tell 'em no. At least charge them commission prices.

And hey, another person who's an illustrator! That was my major when I was in school, although my emphasis was sequential.

Don't feel afraid to experiment with styles other than "anime", though--take inspiration from other works and the world around you.

Also BL game designs are hella fun to make. My next project is a BL visual novel so it's gonna be fun to draw.

by Akuni 19/04/13, 12:56 am

^Instead of making a separate topic for it, does anyone know what rates they would charge like amateur-testers, proof readers, illustrators, voice actors etc.

So you know you're being offered a reasonable sum?

by KawaiiMess 19/04/13, 02:54 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

This is usually the industry standard for illustration, ganked from [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

When I'm asked to do commissions, I usually charge 5-15 bux for simple sketches and 25-40+ for more finished work. A friend of mine's commission prices are [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

When I did game testing for a game that was made by a big company that is going to go unnamed, I got 75 dollars an hour, but the job itself was a temp one that only lasted about a day. I'd assume you'd want to pay your testers consistently, or at least above minimum wage if you're charging by the hour.

Here's the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Make sure you have a fair contract written up for them, in case you want to use their audio again in another game or for promotional purposes. It goes without saying that it's important to credit all artists and workers.

Music and foley's another tricky thing--there's free music sites everywhere, and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is a godsend. Just really make sure it's OK to use an artist's music, REALLY study up on Creative Commons, and if you're using sound effects, you can either record your own or track down free ones (although personally I think that making your own sound effects sounds better, although it's tougher!)

If you're asked to do artwork for someone else' project, get paid at least up front or in installments. Nothing sucks more than doing a ton of work, then having the project head run off with your artwork and not contact you again.

by Akuni 19/04/13, 03:01 am

^OMG I wish I could thank you for that post D: this is really informative though.

The more you know ~~~(/ '---')/

Maybe its better getting a quote from them first ^^; so...now you know, so if you wanna do commission work, you have an idea of pricing.

by Topaztan 19/04/13, 03:17 am

Wow, that post is super informative. <3 Thanks KawaiiMess. If it hasn't been made clear already the professional gaming industry is competitive, and hard to get involved in, and it's only going to become more so in the following years.

I've always had an interest in writing and digital media so getting a job with a visual novel company would be really fun for me, programming is somewhat difficult but I really love the artistic aspects of gaming.

Except for music, I'm not musically inclined at all, lol. But, I think going pro for me is more of a dream, and I would only minor in digital media related classes, I don't think I could ever be a professional illustrator.

Other games using 3D modelling isn't really my thing either, I lose it just dealing with MDD. I'm not getting involved in any X-Box projects anytime soon.

I'm still very far away from whatever profession I choose to undertake but if I do end up doing something gaming related I'd be pretty satisfied.

by billies 19/04/13, 05:58 am

Even if the game industry is competitive, if you really want to get into it- I think it's good to start learning at a young age and work hard for it.

@kawaiimess
Thank you for your informative posts! The commission pricing and the pricing for voice acting, etc. is pretty helpful~
I knew what industry prices are for artwork through my teachers and it always makes me feel kinda glum about commission prices for young amateur artists.

@Akuni
Honestly I don't think I could ever work for free unless it's my own game since it is so time consuming. A game requires a lot of artwork. Good artwork requires a lot of time. And for an dating sim especially, good artwork is pretty important. Because you want to date attractive people right? XD
and I will go ahead and put my artwork up in the fanwork section- thanks for your encouragement!

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