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Fujoshits becomes a popular insult

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default Fujoshits becomes a popular insult

Post by Sakimichi on 13/04/13, 02:33 pm

I'm disappointed with how (some) male anime fans brand everything they hate as "fujoshit". We don't even insult them for liking excessive fan service and fetish with milk spilling on a girls face.
But I am quite amazed on how the fujoshi fandom cleverly replies to these trolls.
I salute you girls~

So what do you think about the gap of male and female fanbase?


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Post by eigengrau on 13/04/13, 03:19 pm

Hmmm I try to pay it no mind. xD Even a few of my male friends use the term fujoshit too and I try not to care... at the end of the day judgment is harsher to male otaku anyway... wink

For example, male otaku who collect figures and/or read ecchi/hentai manga can be easily labeled as creeps or perverts compared to the BL loving female xD




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Post by Makise Sunao on 13/04/13, 03:24 pm

eigengrau wrote:Hmmm I try to pay it no mind. xD Even a few of my male friends use the term fujoshit too and I try not to care... at the end of the day judgment is harsher to male otaku anyway... wink

For example, male otaku who collect figures and/or read ecchi/hentai manga can be easily labeled as creeps or perverts compared to the BL loving female xD
Wow thats an interesting point of view smile
I'll pity them...FOREVER :twisted:

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Post by Loren Leah on 13/04/13, 08:09 pm

Eh, I ignore that stuff. You can be secure in the knowledge that the type of mean spirited immature guy who thinks it's funny to call things "fujoshit" will never be in a decent relationship, because he doesn't respect women.

He'll just have to lust after his bukkake bondage porn lolis forevermore...........

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Post by KawaiiMess on 13/04/13, 10:42 pm

I know I'm rotten, so I call myself "fujoshit" because frankly I think it's a funny term.

I've got male friends who are into BL, I've got female friends who are into BL, and I know the difference between BL/yaoi (guy on guy action drawn by and for women) and Bara (actual gay comics--some are porn, some are not, drawn by and for gay men.)

I'm not sure if there's a term for actual lesbian comics drawn by and for lesbian women (not yuri!) but I've read them as well.

Personally I know how problematic/cliche some of the stuff in BL stories can be (forcing someone to have sex with you = love, REALLY NOW), and how it's mostly inaccurate in regards to actual gay couples.

But as a genre I enjoy it, for shallow reasons (hurr dudes makin' out) to less shallow reasons--BL artists usually can experiment more with interesting styles and forms of storytelling that wouldn't fly in the typical market, example Natsume Ono's work.

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Post by KukiPandora on 13/04/13, 10:58 pm

KawaiiMess wrote:I know I'm rotten, so I call myself "fujoshit" because frankly I think it's a funny term.

I've got male friends who are into BL, I've got female friends who are into BL, and I know the difference between BL/yaoi (guy on guy action drawn by and for women) and Bara (actual gay comics--some are porn, some are not, drawn by and for gay men.)

I'm not sure if there's a term for actual lesbian comics drawn by and for lesbian women (not yuri!) but I've read them as well.

Personally I know how problematic/cliche some of the stuff in BL stories can be (forcing someone to have sex with you = love, REALLY NOW), and how it's mostly inaccurate in regards to actual gay couples.

But as a genre I enjoy it, for shallow reasons (hurr dudes makin' out) to less shallow reasons--BL artists usually can experiment more with interesting styles and forms of storytelling that wouldn't fly in the typical market, example Natsume Ono's work.

Yuri for women is still called yuri, since it started out more female oriented when yuri manga was first being written. Sometimes it's just called lesbian/レズビアン, as well!

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Post by KawaiiMess on 13/04/13, 11:07 pm

Thanks! I wasn't too sure about the actual terminology. : D /

ALSO YOUR BLOG IS GREAT/derails

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Post by KukiPandora on 13/04/13, 11:12 pm

Aw, thank you! (^v^) That's kind of you to say~

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Post by Laramie Castiel on 15/04/13, 03:21 pm

I mean, I have no wiggle room here because I do bash/insult/rip on/etc. ecchi and harem titles myself. Mention "To-LOVE-Ru" and I'm bound to insult it.

I hope nobody minds me writing a long post on this matter, but this links to a series of topics I've observed over a few years, and is part of my opinion.

I'm sure this has been alluded to already, but this reminds me of the "otaku-now-used-as-an-insult" thing. The thing is, with "otaku", it is definitely more understandable (however inaccurate) to start using "otaku" as an insult, thanks to the heavy press coverage over the serial killer, Miyazaki Tsutomu, whose "nickname" by the press was "The Otaku Murderer" and "The Little Girl Murderer" around the late 80s. Since a search in his house dredged up many unsavoury anime and horror films, society started to blame anime for "making him a murderer."

After that murder, instead of "otaku" being known as a blanket term for a person who is obsessively devoted to any interest in general, it's now mistakenly believed to mean pretty much "any big anime/manga fan." Anime and manga fans aren't usually open about their hobby in Japan anymore, unless they're in an environment where they feel okay to do so- like a convention, online, etc. The press (naturally) still only focuses on the weird/criminal things a MINISCULE percentage of otaku do (such as marrying Love Plus characters and dakimakuras), thus, perpetuating the incorrect definition and unfair prejudice.

I think a similar thing is happening with fujoshi, except on a much lesser scale. "Fujoshi" is supposed to be a light-hearted, self-mocking term for "a woman who is a fan of media featuring male homosexual relationships." Now, it is more like, "a female that has a crazy, sexual obsession with anime boys getting it on". It's gotten pretty bad that some male audiences will not touch anime that get the "fujoshi stamp" such as Inazuma Eleven and Katekyo Hitman Reborn. They don't even watch it, just look at the fanart, fangirls and/or bishies and just label it "fujoshi(t) bait".

The Hayami Show knife incident in 2010 made things worse, plus the Tachibana Shinnosuke stalkers from a year ago didn't help matters. It's as though the anti-fujoshi are twiddling their thumbs; waiting for a fujoshi to commit a highly publicised, serious crime in order to justify their irrational hatred. I want to bet a good chunk of gold on a lot of them just being homophobic (like many of those anti-yaoi morons on FF.net), but I don't want to be presumptuous.

Maybe it goes both ways. People who love ecchi/harem "a bit too much" are quickly labelled "gross/desperate otaku", and fangirls of KHR, IE, etc. are just as speedily assumed as "icky fujoshi(t)s".

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Post by KawaiiMess on 15/04/13, 10:49 pm

Whoa there

Speaking as someone who's old enough to remember when otaku was considered an insult rather then a badge of pride, AND as someone who has seen how crazy yaoi fangirls can get-- "fujoshi" is a self-effacing nickname the bl community gave itself.

you know, "outwardly I am a pure maiden, but my soul is rotten."

The reason some fujoshi are looked down upon is not just because girls/women openly liking guy in guy 2D stuff is considered odder than dudes liking lesbian porn, BUT because some fujoshi mistakenly think that if you hate bl, you're a homophobe-- butreal gay and queer people don't really behave like bl characters, and bl isn't a good representation of gay comics overall.

I personally think that shows that are pornographic and ridiculously open about what they are (like Queen's Blade) are more honest than shows like Higurashi and Haruhi, which use porn/misogynistic tropes but pretend they don't.

ALSO A LOT OF BL IS PROBLEMATIC, TOO look at "Okane Ga Nai", for example.

The rotten maiden understands her own fandom's problems and what she likes about it, and rolls with it.

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Post by Laramie Castiel on 15/04/13, 11:04 pm

I'm not arguing about the ins and outs of being involved in such a fandom. What I don't approve of is people misusing the name; the word, simple. Fujoshi is supposed to be a light-hearted, self-mocking sort of thing. It was never meant to be "super-derogatory" like it is now.

There is no question that BL is a poor representation of how male homosexual sex and relationships work. Yes, a lot of fujoshi do have a stand-in persecution complex in regards to "u dnt lyk gayporn den u mst be homophobe"... but that is the PERSON, not the word. They can be no different to many furries every so often.

I grew up surrounded by this stuff for most of my life. I've seen how the words' perceptions evolved- though granted, as my age indicates, I wasn't old enough for when the word "otaku" became such a "horrible" insult.

As for "otaku" being worn as a badge of pride thing, that is more of an ignorant weaboo thing than a Japanese one. As big a fan of anime they might be, many weaboos hardly qualify as "true" anime otaku, and I think that this is a good thing. Believe me, in Japan, people don't admit to being otaku unless they're dead sure the other person is one/likes that stuff enough, and even then, may not even admit it. Being an otaku can get you bullied at school. It can cause some coworkers to think differently of you, all because of a stigma with questionable origin from '89. It won't EVER be a badge of pride in Japan.

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Post by vocaotome on 15/04/13, 11:10 pm

Well said, KawaiiMess! (I'm referring to your whole post in general) I don't have much to contribute in this thread...I didn't even hear the term "fujoshit" before, I was like "hey, did they spell fujoshi wrong?" XD Though I am neither a yaoi fan nor a hater, I am aware of the problems in the BL fandom in general-I did experiment with a couple BL mangas which impressed me with pretty art but made me laugh with the unbelievable plot -and I feel that your points were very unbiased and logical smile

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Post by KawaiiMess on 16/04/13, 04:46 am

I'm not arguing about the ins and outs of being involved in such a
fandom. What I don't approve of is people misusing the name; the word,
simple. Fujoshi is supposed to be a light-hearted, self-mocking sort of
thing. It was never meant to be "super-derogatory" like it is now.

I personally don't see "fujoshi" being used as an insult? I know people will go on and on about "FUJOSHIT RUININ' MAH ANIMES", but even that's considered a joke, and has been reclaimed by rotten people at large.

ALSO INTERESTING DERAIL SIDENOTE the origin of BL came from girls' comics--Hagio Moto's "Heart of Thomas", Keiko Takamiya's "Terra E..." and "Song of the Wind and Trees-- and a good few of the very first BL artists (and some of them today) are actually lesbian themselves. BL became a way to express emotions and ideas about forbidden love and desire--the fact that all the characters were beautiful men and boys added that extra layer of subversion.

There's some BL artists who are gay or lesbian, there's BL artists who are straight/asexual/whatever/queer women and men, and they can cross over into bara and yuri on occasion. Example: Mentaiko (male, bara artist, but has some works that are considered BL)

Believe me, in Japan, people don't admit to being otaku unless they're
dead sure the other person is one/likes that stuff enough, and even
then, may not even admit it. Being an otaku can get you bullied at
school. It can cause some coworkers to think differently of you, all
because of a stigma with questionable origin from '89. It won't EVER be a
badge of pride in Japan.

I'm part Japanese, so I kind of learnt about that from osmosis of various books and material on the subject, but things weren't so different over here in 'Murika back in the day either. Japanimation was considered to be "them bug eyed porno cartoons" for the most part, so fans over here didn't exactly go around trumpeting their love for it.

I think the open acceptance of fandom and nerd things is a very very new thing. It's weird to me, hahah.

I can blather on all day 'bout this and comics history, BECAUSE IT'S REALLY REALLY INTERESTING but at the end of the day I think if we all like what we like, it's all good.

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Post by eigengrau on 16/04/13, 05:41 am

KawaiiMess wrote:
The rotten maiden understands her own fandom's problems and what she likes about it, and rolls with it.

I'm not following much of the discussion here but I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. This is how anyone with a fandom should think.

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Post by Laramie Castiel on 16/04/13, 09:28 am

KawaiiMess wrote:I personally don't see "fujoshi" being used as an insult? I know people
will go on and on about "FUJOSHIT RUININ' MAH ANIMES", but even that's
considered a joke, and has been reclaimed by rotten people at large.

Sadly, not all of them are joking. It's much, much more common for mistaken Westerners to call a female fan of anime as such, because from what I've seen, they seem to think that all fujoshi = creepy female otaku. When those people on FanFiction have a cry about fujoshi and/or yaoi ruining their fandoms, they're not kidding. It all boils down to weaboos wanting to use Japanese they have no understanding of at any opportunity. All it takes is a quick Google search to get their ducks in a row.

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Post by KawaiiMess on 16/04/13, 10:11 am

I don't frequent FanFiction dot net, so I haven't seen that sort of thing. At IRL cons and other online communities, I think the most used insult is just "weeaboo".

I'm not sure if I can vouch for other Western countries, but American fandom doesn't use the word "fujoshi" or "fujoshit" as much because not a lot of people even know what that means here. If anything, "rabid yaoi fangirl" is/was a more popular insult.

When those people on FanFiction have a cry about fujoshi and/or yaoi ruining their fandoms, they're not kidding.

ANIMES IS SERIOUS BUSINESS but in all honesty, I think the best thing to do is to be the more mature person, step away, remember that our fandoms are not all of who we are as people, and if people are getting all up in arms over "the sanctity of Japanese cartoons", then they're the ones who are going to look silly.

Always be a lady. Or a gentleman. Ladyman.

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Post by Laramie Castiel on 16/04/13, 10:14 am

KawaiiMess wrote:ANIMES IS SERIOUS BUSINESS but in all honesty, I think the best thing to
do is to be the more mature person, step away, remember that our
fandoms are not all of who we are as people, and if people are getting all up in arms over "the sanctity of Japanese cartoons", then they're the ones who are going to look silly.

I agree. People do get very wrapt in their fandoms. I only start caring when silly stereotypes are perpetuated or Japanese words are used incorrectly. LOL, what sancitity of Japanese cartoons? You're right; it's silly.

I think I'll stick with Ladyman.

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Post by mistresskisara on 16/04/13, 12:13 pm

Fujoshis sometimes get overboard with their shippings Neutral That's why some fans gets annoyed..

KawaiiMess wrote:ANIMES IS SERIOUS BUSINESS but in all honesty, I think the best thing to do is to be the more mature person, step away, remember that our fandoms are not all of who we are as people, and if people are getting all up in arms over "the sanctity of Japanese cartoons", then they're the ones who are going to look silly.

Always be a lady. Or a gentleman. Ladyman.

^THIS

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Post by alice3ify on 27/04/13, 08:40 am

mistresskisara wrote:Fujoshis sometimes get overboard with their shippings Neutral That's why some fans gets annoyed..

This is the reason why I don't like fujoshis in my country. Or some other fujoshi in the other hand, but yes.

The fact that I was involved in one of a small fanwar inside of a community (who claimed they are otaku while they are not, and most of everyone there is fujo) just because they don't approve my statements that being an 'otaku' actually means 'something' else other than a 'proudful nickname' they entitled themselves for, and there I realized I'm a weeaboo as much as everyone else there.

KawaiiMess wrote:ANIMES IS SERIOUS BUSINESS but in all honesty, I think the best thing to do is to be the more mature person, step away, remember that our fandoms are not all of who we are as people, and if people are getting all up in arms over "the sanctity of Japanese cartoons", then they're the ones who are going to look silly.

Always be a lady. Or a gentleman. Ladyman.

^THIS[/quote]

^ Thirded!

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Post by shymel on 29/04/13, 05:52 pm

I don't know if this was mentioned by someone else already, but on many English speaking sites like 4chan and My Anime List, some of the people using this insult (and its other variants) use it as a catch all term for anything aimed at females. Those same people are often just trolling and waiting for someone to take the bait.

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